Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 7997;andrew.cmu.edu;Ted Anderson Received: from beak.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl) (->ota+space.digests) ID ; Wed, 9 Jan 1991 02:27:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Precedence: junk Reply-To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU From: space-request+@Andrew.CMU.EDU To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU Date: Wed, 9 Jan 1991 02:26:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: SPACE Digest V13 #031 SPACE Digest Volume 13 : Issue 31 Today's Topics: Re: You can help clear cloud over MIR SWEERSTAKES. NASA Prediction Bulletins, Part 2 Does Salyut 7 carry a radio beacon? Re: Interstellar Travel Re: Interstellar Travel Administrivia: Submissions to the SPACE Digest/sci.space should be mailed to space+@andrew.cmu.edu. Other mail, esp. [un]subscription requests, should be sent to space-request+@andrew.cmu.edu, or, if urgent, to tm2b+@andrew.cmu.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail Date: 6 Jan 91 18:36:55 GMT From: cs.utexas.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!euclid.jpl.nasa.gov!pjs@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Peter Scott) Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, NASA/Caltech Subject: Re: You can help clear cloud over MIR SWEERSTAKES. References: <1991Jan1.234043.13033@Neon.Stanford.EDU>, <15500@ogicse.ogi.edu>, <1991Jan3.181449.6025@Neon.Stanford.EDU> Sender: space-request@andrew.cmu.edu To: space@andrew.cmu.edu In the discussion of what money Space Travel Services might expect to make vs. expend on the sweepstakes, I haven't seen any spin-off sources of income mentioned. One that comes to mind is the money they could expect to make for renting out the mailing list and telephone list of entrants. At $0.06 - $0.10 per entrant per rental, that could be a significant income. Plus you don't know what kind of agreement you'll be required to make with STS if you win. They might make it a condition that they receive all interview fees, book rights, etc paid to you by the media. They might sell advertising on your space suit. Many ways of making a buck. -- This is news. This is your | Peter Scott, NASA/JPL/Caltech brain on news. Any questions? | (pjs@euclid.jpl.nasa.gov) ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jan 91 22:43:55 GMT From: ncis.tis.llnl.gov!blackbird!tkelso@lll-winken.llnl.gov (TS Kelso) Subject: NASA Prediction Bulletins, Part 2 The most current orbital elements from the NASA Prediction Bulletins are carried on the Celestial BBS, (513) 427-0674, and are updated several times weekly. Documentation and tracking software are also available on this system. As a service to the satellite user community, the most current of these elements are uploaded weekly to sci.space. This week's elements are provided below. The Celestial BBS may be accessed 24 hours/day at 300, 1200, or 2400 baud using 8 data bits, 1 stop bit, no parity. - Current NASA Prediction Bulletins #793b - GPS BII-04 1 20302U 89 85 A 90365.54298174 -.00000025 00000-0 99999-4 0 1742 2 20302 54.4927 309.0183 0033447 328.1260 39.5831 2.00555364 8824 Meteor 3-3 1 20305U 89 86 A 91 3.72387980 -.00000438 00000-0 -11688-2 0 3052 2 20305 82.5510 76.5768 0016132 185.3947 174.7006 13.15930362 57327 COBE 1 20322U 89 89 A 90363.06071744 .00000092 00000-0 70418-4 0 2384 2 20322 99.0211 11.4917 0008260 183.9533 176.1559 14.02935015 56818 Kvant-2 1 20335U 89 93 A 91 3.68913988 .00034069 00000-0 38751-3 0 5330 2 20335 51.6125 40.6319 0025523 79.3479 281.0593 15.61567224 63077 GPS BII-05 1 20361U 89 97 A 90350.59711931 .00000014 00000-0 99999-4 0 1231 2 20361 55.0071 133.1209 0064560 57.5897 302.9975 2.00584011 7387 SPOT 2 1 20436U 90 5 A 91 1.10323643 .00000644 00000-0 32005-3 0 4512 2 20436 98.7175 77.8612 0000790 98.0175 262.1118 14.20032237 48839 UO-14 1 20437U 90 5 B 91 2.20740313 .00000416 00000-0 18086-3 0 2879 2 20437 98.6865 82.5848 0011091 296.9656 63.0398 14.28833579 49282 UO-15 1 20438U 90 5 C 90362.64847210 .00000213 00000-0 10130-3 0 1809 2 20438 98.6857 77.9834 0009981 310.4541 49.5773 14.28507215 48625 PACSAT 1 20439U 90 5 D 91 1.20277933 .00000380 00000-0 16648-3 0 1852 2 20439 98.6894 81.8097 0011056 300.7417 59.2701 14.28929536 49143 DO-17 1 20440U 90 5 E 90359.11967090 .00000406 00000-0 17636-3 0 1834 2 20440 98.6865 74.7783 0010790 321.3692 38.6723 14.28982888 48136 WO-18 1 20441U 90 5 F 91 3.19901353 .00000388 00000-0 16864-3 0 1853 2 20441 98.6888 83.8647 0011518 294.4450 65.5548 14.29068414 49432 LO-19 1 20442U 90 5 G 90359.36064767 .00000320 00000-0 14229-3 0 1832 2 20442 98.6876 75.0967 0012082 320.8594 39.1713 14.29133556 48179 GPS BII-06 1 20452U 90 8 A 90360.95373832 .00000003 00000-0 -20008-5 0 1461 2 20452 54.4588 248.1324 0047930 50.2545 310.1452 2.00552119 6712 MOS-1B 1 20478U 90 13 A 90361.63060020 .00001047 00000-0 80601-3 0 4827 2 20478 99.1701 70.8397 0000471 149.9211 210.1982 13.94835822 45101 DEBUT 1 20479U 90 13 B 90363.01335131 .00000019 00000-0 72005-4 0 1780 2 20479 99.0197 12.5536 0540758 327.2364 29.6236 12.83166627 41732 FO-20 1 20480U 90 13 C 90349.60777664 .00000054 00000-0 17104-3 0 1745 2 20480 99.0212 1.7035 0541433 357.6633 2.1957 12.83159737 40013 MOS-1B R/B 1 20491U 90 13 D 90360.58985662 .00000847 00000-0 16469-2 0 1861 2 20491 99.0165 19.6551 0469959 300.4029 55.1432 13.02779630 41457 LACE 1 20496U 90 15 A 90365.47869681 .00007581 00000-0 42885-3 0 3814 2 20496 43.0957 316.7459 0015921 150.7473 209.4407 15.13347415 48463 RME 1 20497U 90 15 B 91 1.04596971 .00014355 00000-0 33962-3 0 4303 2 20497 43.1094 243.0880 0019354 208.2843 151.7166 15.41457490 49313 Nadezhda 2 1 20508U 90 17 A 90364.51899788 .00000108 00000-0 10374-3 0 2405 2 20508 82.9540 275.1363 0044966 158.1083 202.1991 13.73255824 41950 OKEAN 2 1 20510U 90 18 A 90365.05622246 .00002513 00000-0 37886-3 0 3963 2 20510 82.5269 276.3185 0020162 0.9901 359.1853 14.73926255 45067 INTELSAT-6 1 20523U 90 21 A 91 1.05792018 -.00018776 00000-0 -13747-2 0 4289 2 20523 28.3377 46.4320 0014538 138.0436 221.8802 15.02973272 44244 GPS BII-07 1 20533U 90 25 A 90294.05687607 -.00000033 00000-0 00000 0 0 630 2 20533 55.1450 10.8449 0034235 102.6965 257.7562 2.00556242 4124 PegSat 1 20546U 90 28 A 91 3.07917833 .00017675 00000-0 10159-2 0 3849 2 20546 94.1379 321.5952 0140170 333.0213 26.3739 15.04423677 40099 HST 1 20580U 90 37 B 91 1.35608294 .00004538 00000-0 49380-3 0 3825 2 20580 28.4710 67.6433 0005403 28.6682 331.4291 14.85838409 37465 Glonass 44 1 20619U 90 45 A 90359.62298554 -.00000017 00000-0 99999-4 0 3232 2 20619 65.0014 32.3847 0024591 216.6899 143.2075 2.13103277 4704 Glonass 45 1 20620U 90 45 B 90365.37198086 -.00000017 00000-0 99999-4 0 3333 2 20620 65.0042 32.1935 0006034 21.6763 338.4246 2.13103219 4837 Glonass 46 1 20621U 90 45 C 90365.43060229 -.00000017 00000-0 99999-4 0 2843 2 20621 65.0189 32.2002 0014093 211.0092 148.9736 2.13102685 4834 Kristall 1 20635U 90 48 A 90365.61719652 -.00049451 00000-0 -56366-3 0 3287 2 20635 51.5938 56.1445 0028347 66.2203 294.4128 15.61242040 33479 ROSAT 1 20638U 90 49 A 90365.16542622 .00003242 00000-0 28500-3 0 1566 2 20638 52.9947 255.6813 0014378 201.7388 158.3016 14.99123310 31819 Meteor 2-19 1 20670U 90 57 A 90360.83798985 .00000125 00000-0 10180-3 0 1400 2 20670 82.5455 135.7527 0017243 105.7961 254.5105 13.83886986 25168 CRRES 1 20712U 91 1.18045573 .00000791 00000-0 77598-3 0 836 2 20712 18.2613 341.9621 7125628 321.1119 4.7208 2.43677978 3906 GPS BII-08 1 20724U 90 68 A 90358.72077540 .00000016 00000-0 99999-4 0 789 2 20724 54.7109 188.6525 0096383 119.8471 241.1780 2.00563791 2860 Feng Yun1-2 1 20788U 90 81 A 90360.67381739 .00000387 00000-0 28347-3 0 823 2 20788 98.9343 32.7980 0010405 306.6667 53.3619 14.00608869 16057 Meteor 2-20 1 20826U 90 86 A 90360.99525211 .00000290 00000-0 25488-3 0 906 2 20826 82.5262 74.8415 0014115 9.2052 350.9363 13.83255385 12403 GPS BII-09 1 20830U 90 88 A 90356.76405907 .00000013 00000-0 99999-4 0 779 2 20830 54.8954 131.1069 0078719 116.6356 244.1432 2.00565609 1904 GPS BII-10 1 20959U 90364.65049323 0.00000016 10000-3 0 169 2 20959 54.9135 190.0008 0041865 213.3227 146.4511 2.00557160 655 DMSP B5D2-5 1 20978U 90105 A 90365.85776992 .00000893 00000-0 34820-3 0 291 2 20978 98.8580 34.7296 0080503 268.6535 90.5427 14.30460409 4325 Soyuz TM-11 1 20981U 91 1.76917932 0.00042457 48388-3 0 395 2 20981 51.6134 50.3185 0024818 71.4822 288.8843 15.61429632 4768 1990 105H 1 20990U 90105 H 90365.04138640 .01688303 00000-0 99958-1 0 412 2 20990 98.9384 36.2126 0139168 268.8494 95.4786 14.96562174 4347 1990 105M 1 20998U 90105 M 90361.86098562 .00433465 00000-0 48799-1 0 260 2 20998 98.8813 32.2865 0178638 281.3148 76.8173 14.73704114 3853 1990 105N 1 20999U 90105 N 90365.56169060 .00393609 00000-0 46737-1 0 326 2 20999 98.7964 35.9742 0165796 269.9345 88.3860 14.73157924 4398 Cosmos 2109 1 21006U 90110 A 90365.00044096 .00000020 00000-0 99999-4 0 336 2 21006 64.8287 151.6459 0062587 184.3526 175.5612 2.13102843 500 Cosmos 2110 1 21007U 90110 B 90360.48367456 .00000020 00000-0 99999-4 0 309 2 21007 64.8521 151.8119 0040051 176.9520 183.0737 2.13102405 405 Cosmos 2111 1 21008U 90110 C 90365.52834460 .00000020 00000-0 99999-4 0 304 2 21008 64.8407 151.6339 0008237 293.5091 66.3705 2.13100586 518 1990 110F 1 21011U 90110 F 90358.94519401 .00000020 00000-0 99999-4 0 121 2 21011 64.8310 151.8449 0008236 323.7167 36.2116 2.13257644 361 1990 110G 1 21012U 90110 G 90365.33752547 .00000422 00000-0 45246-3 0 225 2 21012 64.9029 143.8153 5794274 348.4419 2.4402 4.22975947 1017 1990 110H 1 21013U 90110 H 90365.33818956 .00000500 00000-0 54438-3 0 177 2 21013 64.7791 143.8024 5793423 348.5444 2.4182 4.22964713 1017 Cosmos 2112 1 21014U 90111 A 90361.03795389 .00000265 00000-0 11172-3 0 149 2 21014 74.0465 175.4323 0030013 304.0366 55.7931 14.30070113 2394 1990 111B 1 21015U 90111 B 90365.91199165 .00001096 00000-0 41904-3 0 195 2 21015 74.0511 166.4902 0025691 316.9215 42.9923 14.31597598 3090 Raduga 26 1 21016U 90112 A 90364.25476218 -.00000164 00000-0 99999-4 0 71 2 21016 1.4446 273.8717 0004080 27.7870 333.2798 1.00299985 30 1990 112D 1 21019U 90112 D 90359.26763367 -.00000081 00000-0 99999-4 0 60 2 21019 1.4534 274.7332 0020064 8.0624 352.7230 1.00014341 53 1990 112E 1 21024U 90112 E 90360.25786479 .00000151 00000-0 99333-4 0 21 2 21024 47.2928 270.1979 7272647 1.0671 359.8918 2.27245400 164 1990 112F 1 21025U 90112 F 90354.97773334 .00325590 00000-0 48168 0 0 66 2 21025 47.3558 271.6589 7253435 359.7658 0.0361 2.26274278 48 Cosmos 2113 1 21026U 90113 A 91 1.57139524 .00364647 72504-4 36507-3 0 247 2 21026 64.7604 178.1641 0027768 76.7070 283.7407 16.09938652 1826 Cosmos 2114 1 21028U 90114 A 90362.08268838 .00000022 00000-0 99999-4 0 85 2 21028 82.5766 226.0028 0003249 150.1258 210.0019 12.62466447 734 Cosmos 2115 1 21029U 90114 B 90362.07917468 .00000022 00000-0 99999-4 0 74 2 21029 82.5670 225.9915 0002297 52.6041 307.5259 12.63239772 738 Cosmos 2116 1 21030U 90114 C 90362.07565775 .00000023 00000-0 99999-4 0 66 2 21030 82.5738 225.9942 0005937 13.7132 346.4120 12.64015139 737 Cosmos 2117 1 21031U 90114 D 90362.07271921 .00000023 00000-0 99999-4 0 64 2 21031 82.5739 225.9925 0009555 22.7177 337.4337 12.64665369 735 Cosmos 2118 1 21032U 90114 E 90362.07010357 .00000023 00000-0 99999-4 0 69 2 21032 82.5647 225.9834 0012301 16.5649 343.5843 12.65242581 739 Cosmos 2119 1 21033U 90114 F 90362.06655555 .00000023 00000-0 99999-4 0 53 2 21033 82.5713 225.9849 0016233 9.9943 350.1470 12.66026046 738 1990 114G 1 21034U 90114 G 90365.62137714 .00000020 00000-0 99999-4 0 81 2 21034 82.5648 223.8067 0039683 183.3619 176.7201 12.55424605 1170 Cosmos 2120 1 21035U 90115 A 91 1.53513655 .00147351 72269-5 27545-3 0 181 2 21035 82.5741 282.6500 0079722 63.1495 297.8125 15.95056525 971 Raduga 1-2 1 21038U 90361.23319647 -.00000027 10000-3 0 37 2 21038 1.5189 272.5599 0033449 294.4127 66.3215 0.97875534 13 1990 116D 1 21041U 90116 D 90365.29867300 .00000035 00000-0 99999-4 0 14 2 21041 1.4867 272.7790 0039954 13.1888 350.3702 0.98737281 59 1990 116E 1 21044U 90116 E 91 1.01064563 -.00000027 00000-0 00000 0 0 62 2 21044 47.3047 270.8078 7310665 1.1114 359.9938 2.22557507 96 1990 116F 1 21045U 90362.86533763 -.00000027 0 15 2 21045 47.3665 271.5681 7285836 0.4393 358.3956 2.22160015 23 1990 102G 1 21046U 90102 G 90363.09219134 -.00000119 00000-0 99999-4 0 10 2 21046 1.3880 273.2190 0021479 38.8683 322.3725 0.97870164 116 -- Dr TS Kelso Assistant Professor of Space Operations tkelso@blackbird.afit.af.mil Air Force Institute of Technology ------------------------------ Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail Date: 6 Jan 91 18:29:38 GMT From: pacbell.com!pacbell!sactoh0!mahaun@ucsd.edu (Mark A. Haun) Organization: Sacramento Public Access, Ca. USA Subject: Does Salyut 7 carry a radio beacon? Sender: space-request@andrew.cmu.edu To: space@andrew.cmu.edu Greetings! As many of you have probably heard, the Salyut 7 Soviet space station is expected to re-enter the Earth's atmosphere sometime around the middle of this month. The latest elements from TS Kelso show the orbital period to be near 90 minutes, and the current altitude is somewhere around 270 km. Anyone happening to be looking at the sky when re-entry occurs will undoubtedly be treated to a fantastic light show. I have been tracking Salyut 7 and was hoping to be able to visually observe it up to the point of re-entry. Unfortunately, my visibility window will be ending this week, and re-entry will probably occur before the next viewing opportunity from my location. Does anyone know if Salyut 7 has an operating radio transmitter, on any frequency? It seems like the Soviets would want to have some type of beacon in operation. If Salyut 7 has any sort of radio transmitter, whether it is for beacon or telemetry purposes, it would be possible to track it until the very end of its life. Any information on this subject would be greatly appreciated! I would also like to get in contact with anyone else who is observing the spacecraft. I can be reached at any of the email addresses below, but preferably mahaun@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US. Thanks in advance, and happy satellite watching! -- Mark A. Haun / 3445 Del Mesa Ct. / Sacramento, CA 95821 / Phone: (916) 488-2965 UUCP: {ames | apple | sun}!pacbell!sactoh0!mahaun | Amateur Radio KJ6PC INTERNET: mahaun@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US / pacbell!sactoh0!mahaun@ames.arc.nasa.gov Amateur Pkt Radio: kj6pc@wa6nwe.#nocal.ca.usa -or- [44.2.0.56] on 144.93 MHz ------------------------------ Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail Date: 6 Jan 91 09:33:48 GMT From: zephyr.ens.tek.com!tektronix!sequent!crg5!szabo@uunet.uu.net (Nick Szabo) Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc Subject: Re: Interstellar Travel References: <1991Jan4.170012.4367@zoo.toronto.edu>, <663039225.12413@mindcraft.com>, <1991Jan6.023350.12655@zoo.toronto.edu> Sender: space-request@andrew.cmu.edu To: space@andrew.cmu.edu In article <1991Jan6.023350.12655@zoo.toronto.edu> henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >> Perhaps it can do a flyby, and do a 180 turn through the gravity well, >>and return to us... > >Not very likely at interstellar speeds, unless the star is a neutron star. >Getting close to a 180 -- you can't actually get 180 unless you pull some >other trick -- requires a very close approach to the center of mass, which >will take you straight into an ordinary star. Dr. Forward placed a second mirror beyond Barnard's (it whizzed by while the main craft braked into the Barnard system). This mirror reflected the laser back towards our solar system; the main craft can use this beam to return home. -- Nick Szabo szabo@sequent.com "If you want oil, drill lots of wells" -- J. Paul Getty The above opinions are my own and not related to those of any organization I may be affiliated with. ------------------------------ Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail Date: 6 Jan 91 02:33:50 GMT From: usc!cs.utexas.edu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utzoo!henry@apple.com (Henry Spencer) Organization: U of Toronto Zoology Subject: Re: Interstellar Travel References: <9101041605.AA15306@hermes.intel.com>, <1991Jan4.170012.4367@zoo.toronto.edu>, <663039225.12413@mindcraft.com> Sender: space-request@andrew.cmu.edu To: space@andrew.cmu.edu In article <663039225.12413@mindcraft.com> ronnie@mindcraft.com (Ronnie Kon) writes: >> ... (Energy is the dominant problem of starflight.) > > It's also the dominant problem of interstellar communications. Even >with a really bitching Buck-Rogers 0-degree-spread laser, it's going to be >awfully hard to punch a beam all the way back to Earth. We're having enough >trouble just receiving Voyager's transmissions, and it's not even out of the >solar system. Nonsense. With antennas a lousy few tens of meters across, we're getting quite decent communications rates with the Voyagers, whose own antennas are a few meters across fed by transmitters that many radio amateurs would scoff at as low-powered. The Voyagers will run out of power before they lose communications with us. DSN can punch signals into the *non-directional* backup antennas on the Voyagers if really necessary (they did just that when Pioneer 11 lost Earth lock on its directional antenna recently). The Voyagers are on the order of 5e9 km out. The nearest star is under 5e13 km out. We need to gain a factor of ten thousand. Use an orbiting 1km antenna on this end, a 100m deployable antenna on the other end, and a mere kilowatt of transmitter power -- there are radio amateurs with transmitters that big -- and it will work. Interstellar communication, although not trivial, is not a serious obstacle to starflight. > Perhaps it can do a flyby, and do a 180 turn through the gravity well, >and return to us... Not very likely at interstellar speeds, unless the star is a neutron star. Getting close to a 180 -- you can't actually get 180 unless you pull some other trick -- requires a very close approach to the center of mass, which will take you straight into an ordinary star. -- "The average pointer, statistically, |Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology points somewhere in X." -Hugh Redelmeier| henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ------------------------------ End of SPACE Digest V13 #031 *******************